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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:23 pm
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Website: http://jedsmith.org/
Location: Out of his depth and job-hopping without a clue about network security fundamentals
kmweber wrote:
glg wrote:
kmweber wrote:
It's "valid" in the sense that "it'll probably work," but not in the sense that "it fits in with the conceptual, hierarchical view of the domain name system."


Seriously? Just stop. You're making yourself look like a fool. Using the same IP for both a domain and a subdomain is not a "massive misuse" of DNS, nor will it "probably work", it does work, just fine. In fact, it works just fine to have hundreds of domains and hundreds more subdomains pointing to the same IP.


Please respond to what I actually said, and not what you might like to pretend I said. I never denied that what you describe would "work" in a technical sense. What I am saying is that having a subdomain and its parent domain resolve to an address at all, regardless of whether or not they're the same, is not valid regardless of whether or not it works, because it's inconsistent with the conceptual framework of the domain name system, period.


I sense that you might be thinking of the restriction on certain types of RRs, which do not allow them to be at the same level; an example is a zone with an SOA record which also has a CNAME for @. That will work in today's DNS (and many companies take advantage of it), but is technically a violation of RFC1912 (see ยง2.4). I can't think of any standards recommendation for what you are describing here.

The hierarchical nature of the DNS that you refer to really means zone delegation, and not names within that zone. Although this may have been a guiding principle at some point in the past -- the DNS existed before I became interested in IT -- it is not today as implemented. I can probably find hundreds of zones which have an A for @ and subdomains within them.

I won't argue with you and tell you that you're wrong, just that everybody doing so is likely taken aback by what can be considered an odd belief. The Web would be broken indeed if the DNS did not allow folks to type "google.com" instead of "www.google.com".

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Disclaimer: I am no longer employed by Linode; opinions are my own alone.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:43 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 7:18 pm
Posts: 562
Location: Austin
I think the argument isn't about the real world at all, it's about the Platonic ideal. He's conceded that this is done in the real world.

It sounds a lot like the tilting at windmills that I do against HTML emails, for example. It works in the "real world", and people expect it, but it just ain't right dammit.

However, I still don't see that argument here. How exactly does this practice break the hierarchy of DNS? Why can't an element (casting things into XML terms) have both child elements AND its own attributes?

<google.com A="10.0.0.1">
<www A="10.0.0.1" />
</google.com>

I realize that's not how DNS actually works, nor is it particularly good XML, but I don't see how it presents a hierarchical problem.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:32 pm
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kmweber wrote:
What I am saying is that having a subdomain and its parent domain resolve to an address at all, regardless of whether or not they're the same, is not valid regardless of whether or not it works, because it's inconsistent with the conceptual framework of the domain name system, period.


Uh-huh. :roll: Whatever you say, bucko. As someone else stated, things should just fail if a user types linode.com instead of www.linode.com. Keep digging.


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