Linode Forum
Linode Community Forums
 FAQFAQ    SearchSearch    MembersMembers      Register Register 
 LoginLogin [ Anonymous ] 
Post new topic  Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:53 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:35 pm
Posts: 111
Location: United Kingdom
I'm seriously considering deploying an IDS to my servers but I was wondering what the consensus was for the best option. The only one I really know about is Snort.

Has anyone had much experience with IDS software and if so which package or packages would you recommend? Ideally I'd like something that didn't put too much strain on the server itself but obviously if it is a choice between having a safer system and slightly lower performance I'll go with the lower performance.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:37 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:12 pm
Posts: 1038
Location: Colorado, USA
IDS is a COMPLETE waste of time.

It's like expecting a windscreen to collect space aliens, you'll spend all your time looking at smashed bugs and rarely if ever find an actual space alien (more likely, you'll just stop looking - after all one smashed bug looks pretty much like the other 57 bazallion that will show up).

Lurk thru a few of the Firewall App forums (Ipcop, PFsense, RouterOS, etc) and see what a major hoot-fest treatment IDS posts get.

Way better to setup a good edge firewall, watch it's logs, and setup good log filters on your APPS and see what shows up.

_________________
Either provide enough details for people to help, or sit back and listen to the crickets chirp.
Security thru obscurity is a myth - and really really annoying.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:57 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:09 pm
Posts: 594
deleted


Last edited by zunzun on Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:54 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:11 pm
Posts: 554
Website: http://www.unixtastic.com
Location: Europe
Cromulent wrote:
I'm seriously considering deploying an IDS to my servers but I was wondering what the consensus was for the best option. The only one I really know about is Snort.

Has anyone had much experience with IDS software and if so which package or packages would you recommend? Ideally I'd like something that didn't put too much strain on the server itself but obviously if it is a choice between having a safer system and slightly lower performance I'll go with the lower performance.


Snort is well respected, but where are you going to use this? On a private network where you can say with confidence what is and is not valid and expected traffic you might get some benefit out of an IDS. If you feed it Internet traffic you will pick up constant Internet background attacks.

If you want to check your Linode hasn't been cracked you might want a filesystem based IDS like tripwire instead.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:00 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:12 pm
Posts: 1038
Location: Colorado, USA
zunzun wrote:
my code is so crappy and poorly written that nobody can figure out how to infect it

Ah, the bury the valuables in the septic field method - stinky but effective.

_________________
Either provide enough details for people to help, or sit back and listen to the crickets chirp.
Security thru obscurity is a myth - and really really annoying.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:02 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:35 pm
Posts: 111
Location: United Kingdom
My firewalls are pretty secure (at least I think so). The HTTP servers have all ports blocked except for 443 and 80 and a random port for SSH. SSH passwords are disabled. SSH keys are 8192 bits and root login in via SSH is disabled. SSH connections are only allowed from my home static IP address. All other IP addresses are blocked.

The app servers and database servers have all ports blocked except for the relevant ports and they only allow connections from the HTTP servers (in the case of app servers) or from the app servers (in the case of the database servers). SSH servers on these machines are secured in the same way as mentioned above.

So anything I am missing here?


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:17 pm 
Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:33 am
Posts: 32
Cromulent wrote:
I'm seriously considering deploying an IDS to my servers but I was wondering what the consensus was for the best option. The only one I really know about is Snort.

Has anyone had much experience with IDS software and if so which package or packages would you recommend? Ideally I'd like something that didn't put too much strain on the server itself but obviously if it is a choice between having a safer system and slightly lower performance I'll go with the lower performance.


I'm admittedly partial, but give OSSEC a try.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:27 pm 
Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:33 am
Posts: 32
vonskippy wrote:
IDS is a COMPLETE waste of time.

It's like expecting a windscreen to collect space aliens, you'll spend all your time looking at smashed bugs and rarely if ever find an actual space alien (more likely, you'll just stop looking - after all one smashed bug looks pretty much like the other 57 bazallion that will show up).


Do you mean that the IDSes you have used have been too buggy to be useful? OSSEC is used on tens of thousands of systems daily and while there certainly are bugs, it's pretty stable. I personally know of environments running thousands of agents all reporting to one manager. And it does work.

vonskippy wrote:

Lurk thru a few of the Firewall App forums (Ipcop, PFsense, RouterOS, etc) and see what a major hoot-fest treatment IDS posts get.

Way better to setup a good edge firewall, watch it's logs, and setup good log filters on your APPS and see what shows up.


Firewall logs will not tell you about new users, changed files, rootkits, changed local ports, brute-force attempts against applications and a host of other things. Good luck watching firewall logs in real time. Can you read that fast? Or, you know, you could have OSSEC, which is capable of readings thousands of logs per second, watch for multiple dropped connections from the same IP and have it automatically shun the IP for 10 minutes. Or an hour. Or ten minutes the first time it sees the IP and an hour the next time. It's up to you.


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:01 am 
Offline
Senior Newbie

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:49 am
Posts: 14
Quote:
IDS is a COMPLETE waste of time.
b
A bad IDS is a waste of time. Likewise so can purely signature based systems.

I rate OSSEC (a host-based intrusion detection system (HIDS)) very highly. Can't imagine Linux system admin without it.

Key features for me are:
* File integrity checking
* Log file monitoring and analysis (including detections of abnormalities)
* Email alerts
* Scriptable active responses.


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:11 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:14 pm
Posts: 92
redrs wrote:
Quote:
IDS is a COMPLETE waste of time.
b
A bad IDS is a waste of time. Likewise so can purely signature based systems.

I rate OSSEC (a host-based intrusion detection system (HIDS)) very highly. Can't imagine Linux system admin without it.

Key features for me are:
* File integrity checking
* Log file monitoring and analysis (including detections of abnormalities)
* Email alerts
* Scriptable active responses.


agreed.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:28 am 
Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:33 am
Posts: 32
Be sure to check out the new beta of 2.7.1 and let us know of any bugs.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:44 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:53 am
Posts: 118
vonskippy wrote:
IDS is a COMPLETE waste of time.

It's like expecting a windscreen to collect space aliens, you'll spend all your time looking at smashed bugs and rarely if ever find an actual space alien (more likely, you'll just stop looking - after all one smashed bug looks pretty much like the other 57 bazallion that will show up).

Lurk thru a few of the Firewall App forums (Ipcop, PFsense, RouterOS, etc) and see what a major hoot-fest treatment IDS posts get.

Way better to setup a good edge firewall, watch it's logs, and setup good log filters on your APPS and see what shows up.


I assume you mean web apps, like Wordpress and MediaWiki?

_________________
Homepage www.sturmkrieg.com
Social network Gamernet
Development website Sashaweb Development
Imageboard img.sturmkrieg.com
WikiHub free wiki host Community Wiki


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:47 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:53 am
Posts: 118
vonskippy wrote:
zunzun wrote:
my code is so crappy and poorly written that nobody can figure out how to infect it

Ah, the bury the valuables in the septic field method - stinky but effective.


That's true, though crappy code could also contain vulnerabilities. Like if some noob doesn't include mysqlrealescapestring(). "My name is DROP_TABLE."

EDIT:

Not that the command would actually have been functional, but after I submitted it I hoped the forum didn't have that vulnerability.

_________________
Homepage www.sturmkrieg.com
Social network Gamernet
Development website Sashaweb Development
Imageboard img.sturmkrieg.com
WikiHub free wiki host Community Wiki


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:59 am 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:47 pm
Posts: 1970
Website: http://www.rwky.net
Location: Earth
Inquisitor Sasha wrote:
That's true, though crappy code could also contain vulnerabilities. Like if some noob doesn't include mysqlrealescapestring(). "My name is DROP_TABLE."


PDO prepared statements are better, you can't forget that way.

_________________
Paid support
How to ask for help
1. Give details of your problem
2. Post any errors
3. Post relevant logs.
4. Don't hide details i.e. your domain, it just makes things harder
5. Be polite or you'll be eaten by a grue


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:46 am 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:09 pm
Posts: 594
deleted


Last edited by zunzun on Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
RSS

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group